Posts by Disillusioned JW

11

slimboyfat & blondie made news on newshub.com

by LevelThePlayingField in

i know, how do i find this stuff, right?

the article is long, so just do a ctrl-f then type in your name... also jehovahs-witness.com mentioned in this article.

"theocratic warfare" is a contentious theological doctrine of the jehovah's witness (jw) movement in christianity.. .

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the list of 10 questions Vanderhoven7 lists in regards to Jehovah's Witnesses that is probably the case of most Jehovah's Witnesses if they were to answer the questions to someone else with the responses stated by Vanderhoven7. However, if a person silently answers the questions to himself/herself with the same response (NO to some of questions 1-5 and/or yes to some of questions 6-10) the person would likely be telling the truth to herself/himself. Such JW people would have a higher likelihood of leaving the religion (at least unofficially) than those who answer the other way. There are likely a considerable percentage of that type of JW people who are not mentally out (except to a small extent).

For example, much of the time when I was a JW I thought that the WT position regarding the celebration of birthdays had very weak (if any) scriptural support. I also don't think I thought of non-JW religions as being Satanic though I knew the WT characterized them that way. That might have been partly because I saw no evidence of the existence of Satan and demons. Because I saw no evidence of their existence in my life I had thoughts of considerable doubt about their existence, when I read claims of them allegedly doing things in our day. I saw no evidence of their existence because they (if they hypothetically existed) seemed to have no effect upon humans in our day nor upon the rest of the natural world in our day, as far as I could personally see or otherwise detect. For example, even when I was an active JW, even while a ministerial servant, witchcraft (in regards to having real magical powers) very strongly seemed to me seemed to be nonexistent and thus it was very hard for me to believe the WT's claims of it existing in our day.

During the period of time when I was an inactive JW (but still identifying as a JW) I came to conclude that the WT's position of blood transfusions is wrong.

During much of the time I was a JW ministerial servant I doubted some the WT's teachings and even disagreed with some WT teachings, though I knew that the WT condemned such.For example I thought the WT was wrong in their claim of biorhythms being false and of the occult. While I a JW (both when active and later when active) I kept those thoughts to myself (in order to avoid getting expelled from the religion and shunned). While I was an active JW (even very shortly after I was baptized) I was disturbed by the WT's policy of shunning disassociated ones, especially considering that I had some doubts about the religion and some secret disagreements about the religion. While I was an inactive JW (and later an independent Christian) I still believed in God and the Bible, though I no longer had confidence in the WT leadership, but I had a number of doubts about God and the Bible.

During time I was an active JW (except possibly during the last five years of such) I believed that Jehovah God was going to destroy all religions, other than the JW religion, including the churches of Christendom along with their clergy and supporters (except possibly for a tiny percentage of people). I thought such since to me back then I thought that the Bible taught such.

11

slimboyfat & blondie made news on newshub.com

by LevelThePlayingField in

i know, how do i find this stuff, right?

the article is long, so just do a ctrl-f then type in your name... also jehovahs-witness.com mentioned in this article.

"theocratic warfare" is a contentious theological doctrine of the jehovah's witness (jw) movement in christianity.. .

Disillusioned JW

The WT is telling a half-truth when saying 'that shunning does not exist within JW families, that their relationships “remain the same” with the exception of “spiritual matters" '. It is true in the case of the disassociated/disfellowshipped ones who are living in the same household as their JW family. An example is that is with husband and wife where one is a JW and one is an ex-JW.. Ex-JW children of age 18 or higher however might be forced to leave their parent's home and if they do leave they run the risk of being shunned by the JW family members. Likewise if the ex-JW leaves the parent's home for some other reason, such as voluntarily leaving, the ex-JW runs the risk of being shunned by the JW family members.

12

Does Religion have any place in the modern world?

by Fisherman in

jw
friends

ceremoneys, costumes, spending time in church listenning the same thing again and again, forced to believe in things that cannot be proven.

code or mindset that seperates you from others, wars, violence,....

Disillusioned JW

The good which some religions do (such as promoting sensible moral values and by helping the needy) could also be dome by purely secular organizations, however without organized religion it probably would be much harder to unite people into having a common set of values in a non-totalitarian way. It would probably also be hard to create secular institutions which would have enough power to effectively resist tyranny and organized evil.

Democracies are fragile. The January 6, 2021 attack at and on the USA Capitol, and the collapse of a number of Democratic Republics around the world show that. Hopefully a lasting secular solution will created which will enable human society to flourish without the existence of organized religion.

71

Will Jesus EVER return?

by Fisherman in

for thousands of years the christian hope has been the return of jesus.

the nt unambiguiously teaches the return of jesus.

will jesus ever return in a manner percivable to the senses?

Disillusioned JW

Did Jesus ever leave? Technically from a scientific naturalist point of view Jesus never left Earth, instead he died and remained dead (and his remains decayed). Therefore since he never left (in that naturalistic technical sense) it is technically nonsensical to answer the question by saying he will return or by saying he will not return, since it is impossible for one to return from a place which one never left. Jesus will remain dead.

It is like asking if Santa Claus will return from the North Pole on Christmas day of this year - or of any future year - since Santa Claus never existed, accept as a purely imaginary being.

56

Is this life all there is?

by Fisherman in

jw
friends

what do you sincerely think?

do you nurture any hope?.

Disillusioned JW

This life is all there is. Yes there is no afterlife. If you wish to make the best of this life, your truly mortal life (one without the prospect of future immortality whether in heaven, hell, or elsewhere), then accept scientific naturalism and live your life accordingly with such knowledge.

31

WHEN is the Kingdom of God coming?

by Fisherman in

when is the kingdom of god coming?.

on being asked by the pharisees when the kingdom of god was coming, he answered them: “the kingdom of god is not coming with paratherisis; 21 nor will people say, ‘see here!’ or, ‘there!’ for look!

the kingdom of god is in your midst.” —lu 17:20,21. .

Disillusioned JW

The answer to the question of "WHEN is the kingdom of God coming?" is never. If the prophecies about the coming of the kingdom of the god (alleged god) were true, then the kingdom would have arrived well over one thousand years centuries ago.

Where is this promised kingdom of God and the presence of Christ, a kingdom and a presence of a sort which no human could sincerely deny is actual? From the time of our ancestors from 2,500 years ago and even from nearly 2000 years ago until today, humanity throughout the planet Earth has continued to ruled by humans - independently of the (alleged) god.

Furthermore, where is the battle of Armageddon and the Great Tribulation which were foretold nearly 2000 years ago? Also, where is the Day of YHWH/Jehovah God (a great battle by YHWH/Jehovah God) which was foretold about 2500 years ago? A momentous event of a magnitude comparable to the biblical claim of the great worldwide flood of Noah's day was foretold to come, but it has not come. Gospel NT books ("According to Mark", "According to Matthew", and "According to Luke") claim that Jesus said the coming of the Son of Man (Jesus at his alleged return in power and glory) and the end "of the system of things" would be like that of the coming of the flood of Noah's day.

These things show that the expectations stated by the writer of 2 Peter 3 are false. The book called "The Second Of Peter" claims to be written by the Apostle Peter of Jesus Christ, but whether that person wrote it or someone else, the person has been shown to be a false prophet! Modern critical scholars of the NT say that book falsely claims to be written by the Apostle Peter. They also say the book was written around the year 100 CE (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_of_Peter ) and in an attempt to explain why Jesus hadn't returned yet and why the end hadn't yet come. We are living about 1900 years after that time and from that vantage point in time it can be seen that the claims of chapter three have proved hollow. The wise (in regards to Bible understanding and how history relates to unfulfilled predictions of the Bible) with eyes to see recognize this.

Christians, please open your figurative eyes! Please 'see' the truth of this matter! Please get out of false religion (namely any religion which teaches supernaturalism) and please adopt scientific naturalism. If you do so you will more accurately perceive reality and be more enlightened and you will be freed from bondage to supernaturalistic thinking, and from bondage to hurtful human rulers of religion.

17

What did Jesus Teach the "Kingdom of Heaven/God" is?

by truth_b_known in

the books of matthew, mark, luke, john, and the beginning of acts are filled with what the authors purport are statements of jesus.

jesus is quoted as making several statements about "the kingdom of heaven" or "the kingdom of god".

those statements are often given as parables that start with a phrase something like "the kingdom of heaven is like...".

Disillusioned JW

Regarding Hebrews 11: 9-10, 13-16 9 and the use of the word "heavenly" people often speak of certain things on Earth (or what they expect will eventually be on Earth) as heavenly. Saying that something is heavenly does not necessarily mean or imply that one is saying it is in heaven. For a thoroughly Jewish Jewish Messianic perspective see Thousands of New Testament Scholars Are Wrong | DISCOVER | First Fruits of Zion (ffoz.org) . It says the following.

'A Western mindset relegates what is spiritual to an invisible dimension. This is not the case in a Jewish perspective. The prophets, with all their focus on the tangible land of Israel and the earthly stones that comprise Jerusalem’s ramparts, never denied the spiritual, heavenly quality of that place of promise. The difference between a city founded by men and one founded by God is not the sphere of its existence. A city built by God is one that will not be destroyed and is filled with the glory of God.

In his promise of the new covenant, Jeremiah declares,

Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when the city shall be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate… It shall not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever. (Jeremiah 31:38-40)

That is the heavenly country and the city founded by God that Abraham anticipated. The goal of redemption is not to put an end to what is physical, but to unite the heavenly kingdom with this material earth, as our Master said, “On earth as it is in heaven.”

Abraham’s children were promised a heavenly country, not a country in heaven. That place is none other than the land of Israel. When Yeshua returns and his reward is with him, Mount Zion—yes, that Mount Zion—will be his throne. This fulfillment will simultaneously be spiritual, impacting all humanity, and physical, for Abraham and his descendants forever.'

My observation is that Messianic Jews, by being both Jews and followers of Yeshua/Jesus, often understand the Bible (OT with NT) better than gentile Christians.

17

What did Jesus Teach the "Kingdom of Heaven/God" is?

by truth_b_known in

the books of matthew, mark, luke, john, and the beginning of acts are filled with what the authors purport are statements of jesus.

jesus is quoted as making several statements about "the kingdom of heaven" or "the kingdom of god".

those statements are often given as parables that start with a phrase something like "the kingdom of heaven is like...".

Disillusioned JW

Though many people interpret the NT expression of "Kingdom of heaven" (including the WT [in regards to Jesus and the 144,000] and Vanderhoven7) as meaning the "kingdom in heaven" years ago I discovered that a number of scholars say it doesn't mean that (and it does not mean that Matthew 8:10-11 says Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be in heaven instead of on Earth). Those scholars say it means the kingdom which receives its authority from God and thus that the location of the authority is from heaven, with the kingdom on Earth. Some of them also say it was a way to avoid using the name/tile "God" when communicating to Jewish non-Christians (ones who try to avoid over use of the 'name' of God) and that such is why it is used in the gospel called "According to Matthew" (which is claimed to be primarily written to specifically convince Jews) but not in the gospel called "According to Mark" and not in the gospel called "According to Luke" (or only infrequently used in those two books). That was a key insight to me when I doing independent biblical study (that is independent of WT literature) while I was still a Christian. It contributed to me coming to believe that the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith) and the Church of God (Sevenh Day) are the two religions of Christianity which are the closest to biblical Christianity.

Keep in mind that Daniel 2:44 says the kingdom will be on Earth, ruling from Earth (though with it being brought into existence form a source located in heaven, namely from YHWH God).

Note that in the Lord's prayer (also called the our father prayer) the book called "According to Matthew" attributed Jesus as telling his apostles/disciples to pray that the father's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. This is consistent with the idea of expecting the kingdom to eventually extend to Earth, with the Messiah ruling on Earth.

For example, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_heaven_(Gospel_of_Matthew) . It says the following.

'Kingdom of heaven (Greek: βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν) is a phrase used in the Gospel of Matthew. It is generally seen as equivalent to the phrase "kingdom of God" (Greek: βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ) in the Gospel of Mark and the Gospel of Luke. ... Classical scholar Howard W. Clarke notes that Matthew 3:2 is the first of twenty-nine references to the "kingdom of heaven" in the Gospel of Matthew.[2] The gospels of Luke and Mark tend to prefer the term "kingdom of God". Matthew's use of the word "heaven" is often seen as a reflection of the sensibilities of the Jewish audience this gospel was directed to, and thus tried to avoid the word "God." Most scholars feel the two phrases are theologically identical.'

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Kingdom_of_God says the following.

'In the synoptic Gospels (which were written in Greek), Mark and Luke use the Greek term "Basileia tou Theou," commonly translated in English as "Kingdom of God," while Matthew prefers the Greek term "Basileia tōn Ouranōn" (Βασιλεία τῶν Ουρανῶν) which has been translated as "Kingdom of Heaven." Biblical scholars speculate that the Matthean text adopted the Greek word for "heaven" instead of the Greek word for "God" because—unlike Mark and Luke—it was written by a Jew for a Jewish audience so, in keeping with their custom, avoided using God's name as an act of piety. In Matthew, "heaven" stands for "God." The basis for these terms being equivalent is found in the apocalyptic literature of Daniel 2:44 where "the 'God of heaven' will set up a 'kingdom' which will never be destroyed."

... Jesus assumes his audience understands the Kingdom foundation that was laid in the Hebrew Scriptures. When he speaks of the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven (both meaning the same thing) he speaks of the time of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants. A time of a restored earth where the faithful will worship and serve their God forever under the rulership of a righteous leader of the Davidic line. This was the Messianic hope of the prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures and was carried over and echoed in the words of John the Baptist, Jesus, Peter, Paul and others in the Greek Scriptures.

Jesus would attach the theme of the gospel message itself with this Kingdom idea. Luke 4:43 tells the reader that Jesus' very purpose for being sent was to "preach the gospel about the Kingdom." He then would send out his disciples to speak this message even before they understood anything about his death and resurrection. Compare Luke 9:1-6, Matthew 9:35, Matthew 10:7, Matthew 16:21-23, etc. The initial seed that must be sown in the hearts of men was also identified as the word of the Kingdom by Jesus in Matthew 13:19. Shorthand for the word of the kingdom was given in Mark and Luke's version of the parable of the sower as "the word" (Mark 4:14) and "the word of God" (Luke 8:11).

Jesus often spoke of the Kingdom of God as the destination for the righteous in the end of days.[18] Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount shows that those who follow the "beatitudes" are rewarded with the Kingdom of God/inheriting the earth/comfort etc. Matthew 19 gives an account of Jesus equating popular terms such as "eternal life" and "saved" as the same thing as entering the Kingdom of God when it is established upon the earth. Jesus even taught his disciples to pray: "Let Your kingdom come, let Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." '

20

Apostates apparently have their own terminology

by Vanderhoven7 in

a dyed in the wool witness actually posted this as if non-witnesses invented unheard of terminology,.

"those who devote their life to criticize jehovah’s witnesses use a lot of very specific expressions and ideas common only to them:.

“8 old men in new york”,.

Disillusioned JW

In a combination of two of the Star Trek movies the Borg was eventually completely defeated. In the story line it was shown that the Borg's claim of "resistance is futile" was a false claim (when directed to members of the Star Trek crew). If we apply that idea to the WT it can give us a hope that the WT will eventually be completely defeated.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Rocketman123, regarding people "looking for help and assistance in their problematic sociological lives" help can be found in some self-help books and articles written from a secular perspective that make no promotion of religion. My experience has been that the good books in that category are very hard to find, since the vast majority of self-help books mix in religion, but they do exist.